- May 25, 2017
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- Thread starter 7767
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You know what's unironically the disappointing and sad truth?
Every newbie goes into it with "Imma be an independent superstar gamedev and create the ultimate dream game, because i'm such a genius for thinking up vague would it be cool concepts", then like a year in with their absolutely amateurish coding following zero rules and methods of how to properly format, organize AND NOTE code they suddenly realize that the thing is either not starting up or they can't add features without everything breaking anymore because somewhere they REALLY fucked up the code and have zero idea how to find the issue among the spaghetti, meaning it's so bricked they'll need to either start all over again or try to get as much out of the broken mess as possible which won't be much.
So you have a forever delaying dev who stops updating altogether eventually....
Even AAA projects end up in TERRIBLE condition on release because somewhere someone fucked up the internal logic so it's shit like the open world game can't render an open world properly and YEARS of work need to be undone and rewritten and re-troubleshot which is impossible because deadlines....
Just... never have too high expectations because coding is hard, and by HARD I means it's EXTREMELY EASY to permanently brick years of work.
Every newbie goes into it with "Imma be an independent superstar gamedev and create the ultimate dream game, because i'm such a genius for thinking up vague would it be cool concepts", then like a year in with their absolutely amateurish coding following zero rules and methods of how to properly format, organize AND NOTE code they suddenly realize that the thing is either not starting up or they can't add features without everything breaking anymore because somewhere they REALLY fucked up the code and have zero idea how to find the issue among the spaghetti, meaning it's so bricked they'll need to either start all over again or try to get as much out of the broken mess as possible which won't be much.
So you have a forever delaying dev who stops updating altogether eventually....
Even AAA projects end up in TERRIBLE condition on release because somewhere someone fucked up the internal logic so it's shit like the open world game can't render an open world properly and YEARS of work need to be undone and rewritten and re-troubleshot which is impossible because deadlines....
Just... never have too high expectations because coding is hard, and by HARD I means it's EXTREMELY EASY to permanently brick years of work.
I think a better piece of advice in this case would be 'don't add so many text logs that the Silmarillion would blush to your h-platformer.'
- May 25, 2017
- 844
- 1,579
And this is why the first lesson coders need to learn is how to use GitHub
This and another game is the reason when I see one of these solo or really small team Western Patreon h-game devs talk about either an engine change or system overhaul, I assume on the spot it is never going to see a full release.
The naivety that they need to have their first game be super perfect and have so many mechanics (usually added in as they go rather than having everything planned out) in it despite being a really small team is what tends to kill these projects (assuming they're not just grifters trying to milk Patreon money).
As for Future Fragments getting actually completed for both the game and the promised Patron content, it'll be super irrelevant by the time they actually manage to do that (if they even will).
The naivety that they need to have their first game be super perfect and have so many mechanics (usually added in as they go rather than having everything planned out) in it despite being a really small team is what tends to kill these projects (assuming they're not just grifters trying to milk Patreon money).
As for Future Fragments getting actually completed for both the game and the promised Patron content, it'll be super irrelevant by the time they actually manage to do that (if they even will).
When you have literal AAA games come out broken by supposed "professional" teams with "decades of experience" it's not even a lacking github thing...
Unless you are Bethesda. Why fix your game when your customers will do it for you. Its good strategy. It just works.
- Mar 1, 2018
- 2,124
- 2,389
That's precisely why I never buy Bethesda games day one. I wait for the Game of the Year or other such edition so 90% of the bugs are squashed.
- May 25, 2017
- 844
- 1,579
Well I mention GitHub because of version control. With that, you can document any and all changes and revert them.
it's more of a "holy fuck something is internally wrong and we'd need to rewrite 18+ months of code!" thing
Every now and then I like to check on this game out of a morbid curiosity, it's like a train wreck but they haven't gotten around to cleaning up the broken train parts so every few months I come check on the progress and one of my favorite passtimes is to go to the steam forums/reviews and see how things are going. Game is currently on version 1.0.3 with that patch having come nearly 2 months ago.
It's nice to know 4 months after release and 3 patches the "soft release" text and missing dialogue is still ingame lol. Coming soon™️
And of course you can't have a future fragments post without HW responding within 4 hours of someone asking a question, for those of you who have forgotten, there's a fun hidden game you can play with HW go to the steam forums, click on any topic, check how long it takes HW to reply. On average 4-5 hours was the longest I could find but it was not uncommon for him to reply within 30-60 minutes. You can see the same if you sort by negative reviews he responds to those pretty fast as well. Person who finds the longest response time wins a cookie.
Anyway Summer ends in about a month so I guess we'll see if 1.0.4 comes out or if he'll get sick and need to sell another organ.
This interaction amused me the most though
The problem with this approach is you need to give the player a light at the end of the tunnel to actually want to do this, in lewd games the reward is a lewd scene but here in FF you have for some reason decided to force players to save scum carefully map out every interaction in the game so they can carefully plan out the most min/max approach to gaining a particular stat just so they can talk to this single generic copy paste model NPC... only to discover your reward is more dialogue. When this game was being worked on I recommended the player should be able to see EVERY dialogue option but have ones they lack the necessary stat in be greyed out like "not enough lust" or "not enough justice" so the player KNOWS the option exists and knows that NPC has a lewd scene. Maybe they see a dialogue option they think is cool or interesting so they'll go save scum do just to see it. But there is NOTHING worse then going "oh I bet this NPC has a lewd scene if my kindness value was higher", spending half an hour/hour replaying the game and carefully grinding your kindness value only to discover the NPC doesn't even have unique dialogue for kindness because you were suppose to grind Optimism but had no way of knowing that.
"The intent is for other people/community to discover stuff and post guides" in a void I like this, but the problem is you have gotten way too far ahead of yourself you need to make an actual good game first for people to be willing to do this by releasing an incomplete game with tons of missing features, cutscenes, dialogue, and bugs you haven't just shot yourself in the foot, you've blown your damn leg off.
Also this reeks of bad 2014 design (unsurprising given when this development started) forcing players to have to look up guides and walkthroughs just so they can find the content in your game is retarded. You've given no indication that content exists and from my playthroughs of your polished trial (I played through it 3 times picking different choices each time) the only thing that changed for me was a few words or I just got a different dialogue. Considering your main #1 complaint is "this game has too much dialogue" why the fuck would anyone go through the effort just to get rewarded with more dialogue. Like the commenter said nobody has the patience to try every stat combo to see minor differences when they have no idea if the reward is even worth it the audience for this game is 18+ that's college students and working adults not the sort of people with time to throw out the window. Maybe your discord has guides but from my searches online I can't find a single guide to this game anywhere besides the single faye location guide on steam.
Maybe if you're lucky one of the 16 people still playing this game is writing guides right now and is grinding out every ounce of dialogue but I wouldn't bet on it. The steam achievement stats are even funnier because it looks like 95% of players aren't even finishing the game god forbid running it twice, those 2 achievements are pretty piss easy basic and I can't imagine people finishing The End level without getting them. I wish you included stats on which endings people pick but I'd bet you all the money in my steam wallet people only get one, then quit rendering your 20+ endings kind of pointless.
See you all in 3 months, maybe this game will be complete by its 11th birthday
It's nice to know 4 months after release and 3 patches the "soft release" text and missing dialogue is still ingame lol. Coming soon™️
And of course you can't have a future fragments post without HW responding within 4 hours of someone asking a question, for those of you who have forgotten, there's a fun hidden game you can play with HW go to the steam forums, click on any topic, check how long it takes HW to reply. On average 4-5 hours was the longest I could find but it was not uncommon for him to reply within 30-60 minutes. You can see the same if you sort by negative reviews he responds to those pretty fast as well. Person who finds the longest response time wins a cookie.
Anyway Summer ends in about a month so I guess we'll see if 1.0.4 comes out or if he'll get sick and need to sell another organ.
This interaction amused me the most though
The problem with this approach is you need to give the player a light at the end of the tunnel to actually want to do this, in lewd games the reward is a lewd scene but here in FF you have for some reason decided to force players to save scum carefully map out every interaction in the game so they can carefully plan out the most min/max approach to gaining a particular stat just so they can talk to this single generic copy paste model NPC... only to discover your reward is more dialogue. When this game was being worked on I recommended the player should be able to see EVERY dialogue option but have ones they lack the necessary stat in be greyed out like "not enough lust" or "not enough justice" so the player KNOWS the option exists and knows that NPC has a lewd scene. Maybe they see a dialogue option they think is cool or interesting so they'll go save scum do just to see it. But there is NOTHING worse then going "oh I bet this NPC has a lewd scene if my kindness value was higher", spending half an hour/hour replaying the game and carefully grinding your kindness value only to discover the NPC doesn't even have unique dialogue for kindness because you were suppose to grind Optimism but had no way of knowing that.
"The intent is for other people/community to discover stuff and post guides" in a void I like this, but the problem is you have gotten way too far ahead of yourself you need to make an actual good game first for people to be willing to do this by releasing an incomplete game with tons of missing features, cutscenes, dialogue, and bugs you haven't just shot yourself in the foot, you've blown your damn leg off.
Also this reeks of bad 2014 design (unsurprising given when this development started) forcing players to have to look up guides and walkthroughs just so they can find the content in your game is retarded. You've given no indication that content exists and from my playthroughs of your polished trial (I played through it 3 times picking different choices each time) the only thing that changed for me was a few words or I just got a different dialogue. Considering your main #1 complaint is "this game has too much dialogue" why the fuck would anyone go through the effort just to get rewarded with more dialogue. Like the commenter said nobody has the patience to try every stat combo to see minor differences when they have no idea if the reward is even worth it the audience for this game is 18+ that's college students and working adults not the sort of people with time to throw out the window. Maybe your discord has guides but from my searches online I can't find a single guide to this game anywhere besides the single faye location guide on steam.
Maybe if you're lucky one of the 16 people still playing this game is writing guides right now and is grinding out every ounce of dialogue but I wouldn't bet on it. The steam achievement stats are even funnier because it looks like 95% of players aren't even finishing the game god forbid running it twice, those 2 achievements are pretty piss easy basic and I can't imagine people finishing The End level without getting them. I wish you included stats on which endings people pick but I'd bet you all the money in my steam wallet people only get one, then quit rendering your 20+ endings kind of pointless.
See you all in 3 months, maybe this game will be complete by its 11th birthday
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keenly disappointed that they cut everything that showed a ton of promise then bloated the script just to make absolutely sure that there was no "dub" in the "con". My porn metroidvania where the gimmick is sex happens when you lose is not a game where I want someone spending three minutes telling me how consensual everything is before anything starts happening. Jesus fucking christ.
My dude I backed this game because of the mind break boss and that shit is gone.
So lame. I supported this thing for so long and it genuinely feels like the biggest letdown in ages. Learned a lesson from it at least.
My dude I backed this game because of the mind break boss and that shit is gone.
So lame. I supported this thing for so long and it genuinely feels like the biggest letdown in ages. Learned a lesson from it at least.
Shit, thanks for the heads up and saving me the time (and probably money). I'm sorry you lost your investment on that, I had the same hopes for this game too when I first found it around 2017 or so. Hate it when games try to pivot away from their niche. 99% of bad design can just be killed with proper planning and the audience in mind.
What a heartbreak. One of the only "completed," seemingly quality gameplay projects, and its launch is no better than a wet fart. Definitely gonna think twice before backing anything now.
- Aug 28, 2022
- 92
- 179
The consensual thing is Patreon policy, unfortunately. Even Japanese platforms (e.g. DLSite) is cracking down not-so-consensual content in games. As long as Visa and Mastercard are still the mainstream payment processers, the situation will only go worse.
I personally stopped playing once I reached the fourth level and discovered half of the content was missing. I was hoping (admittedly without any real confidence) that the remainder of the game would be released in a couple months and I could finish the intended experience. Say what you will about HW's tendency to overpromise deadlines, but releasing any game without core assets and content (i.e. written dialogue or even placeholder scenes) is just stupid.
I'd argue more people are annoyed about him being deceptive about the state of the game is the larger problem compared to his tendency to overpromise. Reminder for anyone who forgot that last year we were getting weekly progress reports on how many cutscenes he had left and he was finished all the cutscenes in this game nearly a full year ago (after working on making them for a full year). Yet when the game launched it was missing a solid 20-30%+ of the cutscenes now we are 6 months since release and some of those cutscenes still don't exist. I can only conclude he was lying all along about the progress of the game because the alternative makes even less sense to me.
If he claims the cutscenes were done that means - the animations, dialogue writing, voice acting, and code to plug all of that together was complete even if we assume the code is the real problem, does it really take 6+ months to rewrite your cutscene viewing code when you've already written it once? Additionally, didn't he mention that all the stages of the game were tested? He claims he couldn't move the steam date because it was set in stone (a statement I don't believe but whatever), but he should of known well in advance before he even submitted the game that his game was broken and missing features, we know this because there are sections of the game that even still contain the "This is a trial version and will be replaced in full release".
So if he knew his game was a mess, why did he submit it in the first place? It's not like he hasn't delayed before, even the staunchest HW haters have lost track of how many delays this game has gotten. The biggest misconception that HW and his fans have about the people who dislike this game is that we dislike this game because of the delays which is simply not true at all. It's the constant lies told directly to our faces from his own mouth about the state of this game which has pissed people off and made it impossible for people to distinguish truthful things he says from outright lies.
Good on him for sticking around to fix his mess and finishing the game rather than taking the money and running I guess. But just because the bar is that low doesn't mean you should try to see how narrowly you can clear it...
- Dec 7, 2019
- 4
- 21
Yeah but it's so easy to just omit information on the patreon / backing sites and delegate that stuff to discord. No one from these websites truly give a fuck what you're making, just that outwardly you look fine lmao. Shits dumb, 'cause we all know the people cracking down on porn sites don't give a rats ass about what they're enforcing.
So i heard a while ago that despite the "completed" tag, its not finished. Is that still the case or is it actually finished?
I've been intrigued to try this for a few years now...
I've been intrigued to try this for a few years now...
It's still not finished, there's no news on next update.
The author is still extremely active on social media sites.